New Shun 1730

"15%?"

When the two quarters of an hour was up, these merchants gave Liu Yu an answer.

Liu Yu had a blank expression on his face, neither surprised nor happy, and continued to drink tea slowly and methodically.

After these years of hanging around in the officialdom, his ability to hide his emotions was not comparable to those of the professional bureaucrats of Dashun, but he had more or less acquired some skills.

After this question that sounded like a rhetorical question and a self-question, the surroundings fell silent, waiting for Liu Yu's next reply.

In fact, Liu Yu was very happy in his heart.

Although he still dared not agree to or accept the annual interest rate of 15%.

However, raising the price and paying the money on the spot was still negotiable.

It was much lower than the 20% he had estimated in his heart before, which was really gratifying.

After a while, these people saw that Liu Yu did not speak, so they just pushed Lin Yunwen out again.

"Marquis Jing, we all think that the affairs of Nanyang involve too much. Military and politics are not something that we merchants can get involved in."

"So we all follow the court."

"The annual interest rate of 15% is already our return to the court."

"Whether it is private lending or the laws of the country, 3% interest is acceptable. This 2% interest is very good at lending. We take 1.5%, which shows our sincerity."

Liu Yu nodded at this. Indeed, 15% annual interest is really an absolute low interest rate in Dashun.

The highest interest rate stipulated by the court is 30%, and Dashun inherits the Ming law, but the laws of Dashun or Daming, especially those related to economic issues such as loans, are actually shit at the grassroots level.

Even if both parties have power, there are loopholes to exploit.

Just like in the Arab region, according to Islamic law, loans cannot be made.

But I don't lend money. I lend you ten dollars, but I only give you seven dollars. When you pay me back, you pay me 10 yuan, and the IOU also says 10 yuan. I don't charge you a penny of interest. How can this be considered lending?

Similar methods are used all over the world.

It's just that Dashun has laws; the Middle East has scriptures; Western Europe has scholastic philosophy that can interpret interest as risk-return funds...

They are all similar.

Why does China have the saying of "9 out and 13 back"?

Because since the Ming Dynasty, the highest interest rate stipulated by the law is 3.

9 out and 13 back is not illegal; in fact, 10 out and 14 back at the same interest rate is theoretically illegal.

This is a standard policy from above and countermeasures from below, which can't be cured at all.

You can't take the "Da Ming Law" or "Da Shun Law" and regard the contents as the whole reality.

Since he is doing things in reality, Liu Yu naturally admits that the 15% annual interest rate they offer is indeed a low interest rate.

After nodding, Liu Yu asked again: "What do you mean by 'all subject to the court'?"

"Uh..."

Lin Yunwen didn't know how to answer for a while, thinking that it seemed unnecessary to say. Can we businessmen really decide where the court will send troops? Can we really decide to attack those small countries in Southeast Asia?

How could the court give us the opportunity to control the army?

How could trade in Southeast Asia and the West be possible without the army?

What does 'all subject to the court' mean? Of course, it is simply 'all subject to the court'.

After a silence, Liu Yu said: "It is right and wrong to say that the court should be the standard."

"Yes, the court's laws, rules, and systems must be followed."

"But the court is not the only government-run business for the Nanyang trade. As long as you abide by the law, follow the rules, and follow the system, the court does not want to interfere too much."

"You really can't touch things like the military, political power, taxation, and land policies."

"But the court doesn't want to interfere with warehouses, prices, transportation, hoarding... these things."

"There is no business that only makes money and does not lose money."

"Things like the military, political power, taxation, and land cannot be considered simply for economic benefits. . "

"But if you buy shares in business, you are shareholders. You have to bear risks and responsibilities. You have to make decisions and decide on trade. How can you say that everything is subject to the court?"

"I just want to say that if the court loses money in the future, will you feel resentful? You just think that the court's decision is wrong, then the court will be blamed by you."

"But if you make your own trade decisions and end up losing a lot of money... It's like you do business yourself, not because of the court's customs and taxes, but because you didn't do it well, how can you blame the court, right?"

"There are some responsibilities that the court doesn't want to bear, and doesn't want to care at all."

This is a bit interesting.

The merchants present pondered for a while, and they tasted a taste in their hearts. If so, it seems to be more similar to the model of a Japanese trading company?

If that's the case, then there's another explanation.

"According to what Lord Jing meant, is it the imperial court that is in charge of military and political power, and trade, or are we in charge?"

Liu Yu laughed and said, "Nonsense, do you think that the imperial court is short of money and asked you to borrow money, and you only care about collecting interest?"

"To put it bluntly, you think that 15% interest is also enough to give the imperial court dignity. But in fact, if the imperial court really wants to borrow money, it can still borrow money in Europe at an interest rate of at least 7% or 8%, not to mention 5%."

"The name of the Celestial Empire, the vast land and rich resources, plus the years of advocacy by Europeans, the credibility is enough, no one will doubt that the imperial court can't pay back the money?"

"Now the times have changed. At least, the times of the upper class have changed."

"Small farmers in the provinces don't feel it. It's impossible for them to go to Europe to borrow money."

"But the imperial court has visited Europe several times. Do you think this is the time when we can only borrow money and donate money?"

"I won't talk about the reputation of the imperial court in Europe before, but just talk about the great profits in Nanyang. If you borrow money in Europe, it will be a golden sign. At that time, the British South Sea Company and the French Mississippi Company could easily raise hundreds of millions. Wanliang, this is just empty air."

"It's true that the imperial court went to Nanyang. The Dutch have been making profits in Nanyang for hundreds of years, and everyone knows it. If the imperial court really wants to be completely official, how can it ask you to borrow money?"

This was a slightly threatening statement, but most people present still believed it.

They have done a lot of trade with Westerners before. Even if the Westerners have shops here, they still need local merchants from Dashun to get goods.

They have also asked a lot about some matters in Western countries, especially matters such as loans, stock offerings, and dividends over the years.

Indeed, the interest there, especially the interest on large loans from the state, is indeed not high, much lower than the 15% they think is enough to give the court face.

Times have really changed.

Small farmers really can't feel the changes, and the world is still within thirty miles around them.

But many official matters in Dashun are no longer limited to the Celestial Empire.

Including, borrowing money.

The real lethality of these words lies in the sentence "If the court really wants to run the government, how can it ask you to borrow money?"

This means that the imperial court is not asking you to borrow money this time. You do not need to give the imperial court face, and the imperial court does not bother to ask for this face.

In other words, if the imperial court is really preparing to run an official business, there is really no shortage of money. Don't think that you can't do it if there is a shortage.

After the blackmail, Liu Yu said again: "What the imperial court means is that in the future, in the Southeast Asian trade, merchants will return to merchants and officials will return to officials."

"What is a businessman? What is an official? I don't need to explain this clearly. You should also know in your own mind. Which ones are businessmen and which ones should not be touched by businessmen. You actually have your own knowledge in your mind."

"That is to say, this Western Trading Company has a dual structure."

"There is supervision from the imperial court, and there is also the board of directors of your shareholders. When it comes to military and political expeditions, the board of directors must go through the supervision of the imperial court."

"After the imperial court supervises and approves the review, it will be reported to the imperial court."

"When the imperial court sends troops, the price will be deducted from the company's accounts according to the price tag."

"Set up the rules. For example, the soldier's salary, reward, pension, etc. for fighting. The scale of the battle, the number of people, the time of the battle, the gunpowder and shells consumed, etc., are all recorded in the accounts."

"As much as it should be paid."

"As for the pricing of acquisitions, the construction of warehouses, and the number of commercial ships to be built, that is a matter for your board of directors."

"However, in the early stage, the court's supervision should be more lenient. Let's limit it to six years."

"First of all, you don't know much about the situation in the West, and secondly, you don't know much about Nanyang. The imperial court first sends a supervisor, who is both an official supervisor and a director of the capital provided by the imperial court. In the early stage, Set the rules first, and after a few years, when the deal is done, separate the supervisor and the board of directors.”

"You still have to follow the rules in the future."

"But the rules themselves still need to be discussed with you shareholders. The annual accounts will also be disclosed on time."

"The reason why I want you to draw a bottom line is because the early stage of the court's supervision will make everything difficult at the beginning. If your expectations are not met by then, I'm afraid there will be trouble."

"When the transition period is over in the future, trade will be your own problem. If something goes wrong and you lose money, the board of directors will be responsible and the shareholders will bear it. The court will not be held responsible. If you make money, the court will not be jealous. You Just pay taxes according to the rules.”

What Dashun has done is a bit new, a bit like the British East India Company after the 1774 and 1776 Acts.

Separate politics, military and commerce.

The government appoints the Governor, who can make decisions bypassing committees and boards when "necessary". The governor also serves as the commander-in-chief of the garrison.

Although they are similar, the inside is completely different due to differences in national conditions.

The British East India Company went from not being supervised by the government at all to having to seek help from the government when an internal crisis gradually broke out. The government eventually added sand to the company and finally took control.

On Dashun's side, it's completely the opposite. Here in Dashun, it is the norm to be completely supervised by the government and even run by the government, and what Liu Yu wants to do is precisely to weaken the court's overall control over the merchant class.

From the very beginning of its establishment, the British East India Company's slogan was to reassure the business class that "the company will never hire any politician, will never allow government personnel to enter the company, and will never allow the government to have any influence on the company." Jurisdiction".

Including the soldiers fighting in India, they were the company's own mercenaries, not the British government's troops.

But if capital is given unlimited power, the result will be that it eats people without spitting out their bones, completely collapses, and ultimately has to be regulated by the government.

No one here in Dashun dares to shout slogans similar to those of the East India Company when it was founded, unless they are impatient with life.

For the British government, what it was doing was "to spend 150 years turning the East India Company, which was completely unregulated by the government, into a company with dual decision-making by the government and the board of directors, and then to completely abolish the East India Company." .

And for Liu Yu, what needs to be done is to "spend enough time to turn the completely official monopoly form of Dashun into a company with dual decision-making by the government and the board of directors".

This is determined by the different national conditions of the two sides.

In the national conditions of Britain, if the government wants government supervision from the beginning, it will scare away all the businessmen.

Britain used to manage too little, and the result of too little management is the short-sightedness and suffocation of capital.

In the national conditions of Dashun, the court only supervised the government from the beginning, which would attract all the businessmen.

Dashun used to manage too much, and the result of too much management is that the vitality of private capital cannot be stimulated at all.

Due to different national conditions, what Britain needs to do is to "grasp"; and what Dashun needs to do is to "let go".

The court's "let go" attitude is very important for businessmen.

Dashun's businessmen have never expected that the Nanyang issue related to military and political affairs can be "free from any government supervision".

So this regulatory policy that took Britain 130 years to finally complete, which made the board of directors very dissatisfied and the shareholders extremely angry.

On the Dashun side, potential shareholders were extremely excited and grateful, and truly felt the sincerity of the court.