USSR 1991

All the questions were brought together and placed on Yanayev's desk. Except for the most sensitive questions that had no answers and needed to be decided by Yanayev himself, the others even wrote standardized answers and waited. During the interview, I read it according to the script.However, for a politician who has experienced many battles, these problems are still difficult for Yanayev to play on the spot.

Also in the morning, Mike Wallace, who collected first-hand materials and listed them, boarded a special plane to Moscow with great interest. This was his first interview with the top leader of the opposing camp. In the eyes of the media, Mike Wallace will once again create the pinnacle of his career in journalism.

Along the way, Wallace was carefully preparing and collecting materials. From the beginning of his participation in labor in 1958 to the August [-]th incident, he recorded everything in his notebook in detail. What surprised Wallace in particular was Yanayev After the August [-] incident, his temperament completely changed, as if he had changed from a mild political approach to a tough and extreme one.Wallace has always believed that except for Stalin, an evil genius, the subsequent leaders of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union are all proud clowns without exception. They have no idea how to grasp the highest power and have already mastered a clear mind in international political struggles .

In the end, Wallace closed the material, rubbed his sore eyes, and then picked up the pen as if thinking of something, and drew a big question mark on Yanayev's photo, and quoted Fadeyev's comment next to it The words of Stalin and Khrushchev.

Is Yanayev an evil genius like Stalin, or an ignorant clown like Khrushchev?

After arriving at Moscow International Airport, Yanayev was specially received by agents of the Ninth Bureau of the KGB. After checking his equipment and carrying no dangerous items, he agreed to board the president who was flying to Foros, Crimea. special plane.However, during the search, Wallace was rude to the KGB agents during the inspection, and the other party said it was just a routine matter.But it was still secretly remembered by Wallace.

Perhaps Wallace is the only Western reporter who enjoys the treatment of the presidential plane. When he arrived at Foros Villa, Yanayev, who had been waiting for a long time, gave him a warm hug.

The location of the interview was arranged in the presidential bedroom. Yanayev hoped that the West could see a supreme leader with a friendly image.

Facing reporter Wallace with wary eyes, Yanayev said with a smile, "Welcome to the holiday villa of President Foros, my Western friend. You are also the only Westerner who has stepped into this villa for so many years." Reporter, I hope that the next interview can be as relaxed and pleasant as chatting with old friends. Don't be too nervous, my reporter friend, take it easy, and don't make yourself like French director Babette Strode interviewing Ugandan President Amin The same trepidation, I am an easy-going person."

Wallace was a little surprised. Yanayev's gentleness and politeness made him wonder whether the murderous dictator who was denigrated by American newspapers and slandered by Soviet intellectuals was the same person.

Faced with Yanayev's enthusiasm, Wallace generously shook the other's hand, grinned and showed a bright smile, "Hello, President Yanayev, I am honored that you can accept my invitation for a visit. To be honest, since President Amin of Uganda is mentioned, is President Yanayev a cruel, persecuting tyrant like the western world portrays? Or is the friendliness I have seen just your wishful thinking Come out, like the president of Uganda?"

Wallace's first question was aggressive, and the photographer even gave Yanayev a hesitant look. As long as the president nodded, he could cut off the camera at any time and ask the guards to forcibly end the interview.

But Yanayev only replied mildly, "But the information we have shows that Ugandan President Amin's fortune has been greatly helped by the British intelligence agencies, and the US and Israeli intelligence agencies have also participated in this matter. The British intention is Support Amin to suspend the process of nationalizing foreigners' property and suspend President Obaid's pro-Marxist tendencies. Moreover, in this document, the British Foreign Secretary also bluntly stated that Amin is a person who has relations with us , we can count on him. Of course, you can think that what I said is false. If you have time, reporter Wallace can go back and check the information. You will find that after Amin came to power, he immediately canceled the former government’s private ownership of the UK. The company’s nationalization decision. In order to thank Amin, the British government immediately provided Amin with financial assistance of 900 million pounds, donated [-] armored infantry vehicles, and sent military consultants to help train the Ugandan army.”

Wallace suddenly realized that there was something in Yanayev's words, and it seemed that a trap had been set up for him to enter. The so-called mention of Uganda was completely letting himself step into Yanayev's thinking trap, following his train of thought walking.

Sure enough, Yanayev continued unhurriedly, "Britain, a country that advertises human rights and freedom. It once promulgated the document "Bill of Rights" in 1689 to clearly restrict the royal power in the form of law. And the British poet Pope I also once said that those who do not give freedom to others cannot get it themselves. Then, is it an accomplice of the dictatorship that Britain obstructs the Ugandan people's right to freedom and democracy?"

Wallace wiped the sweat from his forehead. It turned out that the Soviet leader was not a simple and rude "tsar" like Nicholas II. Every sentence revealed that he was calculating the West and had done the Western government. Some of the shady transactions were poured out all at once.

At this time, Yanayev completely put aside the answer to the model essay provided by Surkov a few days ago, and entered the plot of random play.He made a please gesture for Wallace to ask the next question.

Wallace took a breath and began to ask questions about the Soviet dictatorship, "So what about the innocent people who peacefully gathered in Red Square during the August [-] incident? Your soldiers pointed their guns at these freedom-loving, hopeful people. The people of the country are democratic and prosperous. Shouldn’t this be regarded as the practice of a dictator? In what was later called the Stalinist purge by the West, you almost wiped out half of Moscow’s officials, and many high-level officials ended their lives inexplicably .Even Solzhenitsyn, the author of "The Gulag Archipelago" and known as the most conscientious intellectual, wrote an article aimed at you to satirize dictators. In the eyes of Westerners, you seem to be able to To describe it, so I want to know how President Yanayev feels when you hear these comments. Will you acquiesce yourself as a dictator?"

Compared with the previous questions, the whole question made everyone present hold their breath, and some photographers were even afraid that they would hear some secrets that they should not have heard.But only Yanayev still looked at the same confident Wallace calmly and calmly, his eyes seemed to have seen through everything.

"It's a pity, Mr. Wallace, the level of your questions is not as good as that group of cents." Yanayev thought about this sentence silently in his heart.

Chapter 58 Wallace (3)

Perhaps because the atmosphere was not enough to add fuel to the flames, Wallace added another sentence, "And when I was at the airport, I was shamelessly treated by KGB agents, and I was brutally searched. May I ask you to treat those people like this?" A defender of freedom and equality? Or is it that the pen in my hand will endanger your personal safety."

Yanayev smiled and pressed his hand, signaling Wallace to calm down a little, and waited for the sharp-tongued reporter to calm down a little before he said slowly, "Okay, okay, don't worry, my reporter friend. Let's start Solve problems one by one."

Yanayev raised his first finger and said, "First of all, regarding the innocent people in the August 1863 incident, you said that our soldiers pointed their guns at these freedom-loving people. But these people are burning, smashing, looting Don’t you turn a blind eye to the property of the people? And if they are really freedom-loving people, then who is the cause of the gunshot wound on my shoulder? Is it possible to ignore the law in the name of freedom? Well, perhaps the French revolutionary Mrs. Roland said one thing right, 'Liberty, how many people have committed crimes under your command'. When you had the draft riot in New York in [-], those policemen were never lenient in suppressing others. Why did it become a double standard in the Soviet Union, and your suppression is the victory of the rule of law. Does our control become a symbol of dictatorship?"

Wallace was speechless for a moment. He didn't expect Yanayev to know more about American historical political events and public security current affairs than himself.But Yanayev did not stop there, but took a sip of tea and continued to chase after the victory, "I would like to know what is the correct statement about Stalin's purges. If reporter Wallace is willing, we can provide all of them. The criminal evidence, including the specific amount of each political prisoner's embezzlement and bribery of the people's property, some of them are enough to constitute the death penalty, and we use thunder to make him submit to the corrupt."

Wallace gritted his teeth and continued to question, "But the materials in my hand indicate that the officials who committed suicide were all liberals who favored democratic reforms. Does this mean that the trial between liberals and conservatives has been treated unfairly? .”

"There's no such thing as that, liberals and conservatives alike pay for their actions." Yanayev pointed out the error in Wallace's ludicrous statement. Donating money, I am surprised why democratic countries can collect money almost by legal means in broad daylight? Isn’t this encouraging and breeding corruption in disguise? Could it be that those officials who yearn for democratic freedom and reform are actually just wanting to be corrupt bureaucrats like your country’s officials ?”

Wallace wanted to continue to say something, but was interrupted by the eloquent Yanayev, "Can I make such a reasoning, in fact, these democratic reformers are yearning for an oligarchy that is not bound by national laws , so that he can transform himself and use corrupt money to control the entire country. Become a so-called democratic country? If your democracy is based on a small number of people controlling the interests of the vast majority, then I will be the first to say no."

"Next, let's talk about Solzhenitsyn, who is known as the conscience of Soviet Russia. It is said that you want to support him as a propaganda weapon against the Soviet dictatorship. But unfortunately, Solzhenitsyn does not like communism. He also doesn't like your liberalism, he called American music a terrible noise, oh yes, he also said that your America is vulgar material consumerism."

Yanayev looked at Wallace with a bit of embarrassment in satisfaction. He really didn't expect that he could have a verbal battle with the most vicious reporter in the West nine years in advance. He continued with ease, "Do you know what he likes the most? Like Like Tsarist Russia, to restore the dominant position of the Orthodox Church in the national ideology, I usually call this kind of old and young people "Russian emperor", which means a supporter of Russian tsarism, a person who is born with no straight back."

"So President Yanayev admits that you suppressed the freedom of religion in the Soviet Union? And national freedom and equality? Just like you did to the member countries." Wallace, who noticed a slight loophole in Yanayev's words, hastily continued. Language strikes back.The factor that has always been criticized for the Soviet Union's religious policy is that it is very easy to be used by the West and become a weapon to infiltrate the regime.

According to what Yanayev said before, there are always people who want to harm me.

The monitors Rysurkov and Plekhanov watched this wonderful debate nervously. President Yanayev always made some unexpected and successful events.Although other people strongly opposed this debate, thinking that it would affect the international image of the Soviet Union, Yazov and Pavlov even threatened that it was a Western conspiracy, but our president joined it unprepared.Only Surkov, as always, believes that the president can complete a beautiful counterattack.

"President Yanayev, how would you answer?" Surkov held his arms tightly, a little worried that the president would reveal his flaws on this question, which would cause the shooting scene to get out of control.

However, Wallace still did not see the surprised expression expected by the other party. Yanayev's eyes seemed to see through all Wallace's hole cards. He smiled and shook his head, and said a word in Russian English, NAIVE.Then I started my own eloquence, "Since you mentioned religious freedom, I can tell you that it is a unique cultural tradition of the Soviet Union, which inherited the cultural civilization of the Eastern Roman Empire, rather than your ancestors carrying out crusade religion in Europe. Hypocritical theocracy over secularism when wars and the use of the Inquisition to massacre heretics. I suggest you visit various religious sites in the Soviet Union, in Leningrad, in Sverdlovsk, those There are countless churches, and we have never seen an incident of repression of Orthodox Christians."

"If we were suppressing religious freedom as you said, there wouldn't be so many people there, and even the buildings should be demolished. But all these places are listed as key protection units, and those churches are repaired with money donated by Orthodox believers. In addition, the government also allocates funds for protection every year. Are we stupid enough to spend money to protect what we want to suppress? Of course we went astray during Stalin and Khrushchev, but you should see that these years we are in Efforts on religious issues. If you only look at a person's past deeds without looking at his current achievements, it is a very wrong understanding."

Yanayev pushed all the faults on the previous two leaders, and pushed away the excuse of his own religious suppression.

"Shall I talk about the United States again? Do you mind, reporter Wallace. After all, what I said may be a bit sharp." Yanayev completely took the initiative in this interview, as if Wallace was the one being interviewed Same as leaders.

"I don't care at all. In fact, as long as President Yanayev is right, I will not interrupt your speech." Wallace signaled that the other party could speak at will.

Yanayev said, "We recognize that the United States is qualified to be a pioneer in building a modern country. The American people are great people. Hardworking and kind people have built a great country and provided valuable experience for human development. Despite this , the United States does not have the right to teach other countries, especially by accusing others of their internal affairs. It is not only that this will lead to rebellious psychology, but more importantly, God did not give you this power, let alone the Soviet Union was not established by the United States Subsidiary. We have the right to go our own way, follow our own system, maybe we will make many mistakes, but it is also God's right to make mistakes."

"Many Americans who like to teach the Soviet system have forgotten the history of the United States. As a modern country, the Soviet Union has only 74 years of history since its establishment, while the United States has a history of more than 200 years. The founding father of the United States Jefferson on the Declaration of Independence It is a pity that he has kept slaves all his life. He thinks clearly about ideals and reality. We don't think he is a hypocrite like you. The founding constitution of the United States has no human rights clause at all. Why? Because the founding fathers of the United States were realists, and they put the unity and stability of the country first. Before the Civil War, Lincoln tried to use the preservation of slavery as a bargaining chip in exchange for the abolition of independence in the South and the maintenance of national unity. Obviously , Lincoln's principle is clear, that is, unity is greater than human rights. Women did not get the right to vote until more than 100 years after the independence of the United States, and 190 years later, that is, in the 20s, the abolition of racial segregation began. Until now, we know that the different races in the United States People do not live together, they are polite on the surface, but they are far from being integrated."

"So, is it the right choice for Mr. Wallace to flaunt American democracy to criticize Soviet politics?" Yanayev's last sentence was so forceful that Wallace could not refute it.

Chapter 59 Wallace (4)

"The time is almost up, I think this is my last question, President Yanayev."

Wallace has nothing to do with Yanayev. No matter what the topic is, it can be drawn into the black history of the United States, so that in the end he does not intend to play cards according to common sense, and prepares to find another way.Wallace turned over a page of the manuscript, and finally focused on a question that had been marked with a red cross.

"Before I ask this question, I want to tell a story." Wallace closed the page, and the interview time was almost over, and all the questions finally converged on this moment.Wallace secretly made up his mind that he must never miss again, and he must dig out the gaffe scandal of the leader of the CPSU.

"In 1985, there was also a Soviet prisoner of war riot that shocked the world. At that time, twelve Soviet prisoners were sent to the Bad Epo Concentration Camp in Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province, where the US Central Intelligence Agency and Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Agency The base camp of the armed Afghan resistance movement. In the camp, the prisoners of war were treated inhumanely. They were forced to die. On the evening of April 4, when the camp guards were praying, they quickly seized the weapon depot and the radio station. The prisoners of war tried to use the radio station Contacted the 26th Air Force of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, hoping that they could provide air rescue, but the army did not respond. At the last moment, Rabbani, the leader of the Afghan resistance movement, accompanied by US and Pakistani advisers, went to the scene to persuade him to surrender. The conditions put forward by the prisoners of war are "We want to meet with the Soviet ambassador to Pakistan." But the Soviet ambassador refused to show up for various reasons. On April 34, the impatient Rabbani ordered an attack. The Soviet prisoners of war resisted desperately, and finally blew up the arsenal and committed suicide."

Yanayev, who thought he was sure of winning, slowly restrained his smile. Wallace subtly captured Yanayev's changed expression, and asked triumphantly, "Do you know about this? Does the Soviet government know? "

If you choose not to know, then it is tantamount to lying in front of the people all over the world.If you say you know, then it is equivalent to acknowledging what the motherland finally abandoned its soldiers during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.What is even more frightening is that there is no way to avoid this question. No matter which answer Yanayev chooses, there will be a series of more difficult questions waiting for him.

"know."

Yanayev took a deep breath, and his voice was almost hoarse when he said this heavy answer. He wanted to pick up the glass again, but found that there was already water in it.Surkov, who had been observing the atmosphere of the scene, noticed that something was wrong, and he told the cameraman to be ready to cut off the video at any time.And the palm of the photographer who had been staring at Yanayev was already sweating.

He didn't edit this major international event well, and he didn't know how serious the consequences would be.

"Then I want to ask why, they ended their lives in such a heroic way instead of returning to their home safely." Wallace pointed at Yanayev without hesitation. To be honest, he was also a little surprised , The Soviet Union tried to deny these things before, but Yanayev would admit the existence of prisoners of war cleanly.

Yanayev put down his glass, as if he had made the most difficult decision in his life, and said slowly, "Because the Soviet official media called the behavior of these prisoners of war shameful, and the former leader Gorbachev also The statement at the press conference that the Soviet Union is not at war with any country, so we have no prisoners of war. Of course, I think this concept is very irresponsible. Those soldiers are human, even if they are not like the Red Army in the Great Patriotic War. Heroes are also rewarded with medals, but the motherland also has no responsibility to forget them."

"When the Soviet troops withdrew from Afghanistan in a hurry, there were about 430 people recorded in the official books. But they ended up scattered on the battlefield in Afghanistan and did not return home because of various difficulties in the end. Implemented and failed to find them."

In 1991, there was no so-called Council of Veterans of the Russian Federation, and there were no spontaneous non-profit organizations to rescue the figures that had long been lost behind the desert and loess.

"President Yanayev, aren't you afraid of being criticized by the people of the whole country for speaking these words?" Wallace was a little surprised by Yanayev's frankness. According to the deeds of previous Soviet leaders, Wallace The doctor always thought that Yanayev would deliberately change the subject, so that he would have more opportunities to make a fuss.

But a candid Soviet leader made him even more at a loss.It seems that the previous small means of attacking politicians have all failed in the face of Yanayev's uprightness.

"Socialist construction does not only focus on big achievements, but also the fate of small people. If the Soviet Union created the world's most powerful war machine, and in the end it couldn't even protect its own people, that would be true Ridiculous thing. I want to ask, will the people still trust us at that time?"

No national leader has ever said anything like this, and Yanayev's frankness won everyone's favor.Sometimes admitting mistakes can gain the trust of the masses better than trying to cover them up, but it is also more difficult because you have to endure more accusations and criticisms.